Icon - KMLM List KMLM List

View email archives for the history of this mailing list.

List Home All Archives Dates Threads Authors Subjects
25964info - FW: Namespace and RDF Vocabulary for ISO-THES Message Thread: Previous | Next
  • To: <25964info@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • From: "Johan De Smedt" <johan.de-smedt@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 12:05:09 +0100
Send Email to 25964info@list.niso.org:
Send new message
Reply to this message

From: Johan De Smedt [mailto:johan.de-smedt@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Sunday, 17 February, 2013 10:58
To: 'Juan Antonio Pastor Sánchez'
Cc: Antoine Isaac (aisaac@xxxxxxxxx); Stella Dextre Clarke (stella@xxxxxxxxxxxxx); Stella Dextre Clarke (stella@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: RE: Namespace and RDF Vocabulary for ISO-THES

 

Hi Juan,

 

Some observations in-line.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Johan De Smedt

Chief Technology Officer

 

mail: johan.de-smedt@xxxxxxxxxxxx

mobile: +32 477 475934

mail-TenForce

 

From: pastorcito@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:pastorcito@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Juan Antonio Pastor Sánchez
Sent: Tuesday, 12 February, 2013 09:46
To: Johan De Smedt
Subject: Re: Namespace and RDF Vocabulary for ISO-THES

 

Hi Johan,

 

Thank you for your SPARQL suggestions. Currently I use two of them to browse and query the UNESCO thesaurus with an user interface.

 

I pointed out the problem that occurs in a scenario in which RDF applications simply follow the links between resources (i.e., without using SPARQL). In this case, the application walks through the dataset starting from the ConceptScheme: it's unable to determine the KD and MT (without using SPARQL) that form part of the thesaurus. Something similar happens when this RDF application analyzes a URI associated with a Concept: it's impossible to determine the MT to which the Concept belongs.

[JDS:>] The requirement to traverse all relations always in any direction is an application specific requirement.

Not an ontological or semantic requirement.  I.e. some applications require it, others not.

E.g. for a concept to be well defined, it is not necessary to know in which collections it is taken up or by which links it is referred.

 

This is because there is no properties explicitly declared that connect from the ConceptScheme/Concepts with ConceptGroups/Collections. However the ISO 25964 datamodel includes ISO 25964 "contains" and "isMemberOfGroup" which greatly simplifies things.

[JDS:>] Point taken.

However, the isMemberOfGroup cannot be seen as the [owl] inverse of skos:member (but rather as the inverse of a sub-property of skos:member).

- skos:member can only be considered a representation of contains in case the iso-thes:ConceptGroup and the skos:Concept belong to same skos:ConceptScheme.

Bottom line, I think the iso-thes:isMemberOfGroup is a good candidate to add to the model.

[JDS:>] The contains is mapped to skos:member.

 

I propose the inclusion of these two properties because:

  • Make it unnecessary that RDF applications downloads the entire dataset (something impossible in the case of very large datasets) for analysis and inference of the inverse relationships.

[JDS:>] This is a delicate one depending on architecture, service definition, …
Dataset definition and service access may be made flexible.  The dataset publisher or the SPARQL end-point may provide services to:
- retrieve the concept groups containing one or more concepts.

  • Avoid the massive use of SPARQL for inference of the inverse relationship due to the uncertainty means that individual URIs of elements  do not include explicit this properties.

[JDS:>] Inference is not the issue I think because the service provider does not need to infer inverses (as they are not defined in our proposal).
 The SPARQL language allows the conditional _expression_ to be formulated as well as skos:member as in the occasional inverse direction. 
As said though, it may be an application requirement – the service implementation is different.

  • This could be very useful for developing and implementing RDF crawlers over SKOS, as an alternative to inference processes.

Other history are "mainConceptOf" and "hasMainConcept": it's a very particular case of use. Probably its implementation should be done with local/custom properties in UNESCOTHES. 

[JDS:>] ok

 

I think that I have exposed now more clearly. Sorry for my previous email: it was quite confusing (and too long) and I did not explain well the fundamental ideas.

[JDS:>] Thanks.

 

Thank you very much for your time and patient.

 

Regards,

Juan

 

 

 

 

 

2013/2/12 Johan De Smedt <johan.de-smedt@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

Hi Juan,

 

Below are 3 remarks in-line, suggesting SPARQL solutions for the issues you raise.

Hope they are of help.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Johan De Smedt

Chief Technology Officer

 

mail: johan.de-smedt@xxxxxxxxxxxx

mobile: +32 477 475934

mail-TenForce

 

From: pastorcito@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:pastorcito@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Juan Antonio Pastor Sánchez
Sent: Monday, 11 February, 2013 11:48
To: Johan De Smedt
Subject: Re: Namespace and RDF Vocabulary for ISO-THES

 

Hi Johan,

 

Sorry if this message is too long

 

The work you've done is excellent: precise and very detailed. You have given me an example of how to develop an ontology. After watching it, I am ashamed of the ontology draft I sent.

 

Thanks for everything. Once you know the namespace (http://www.niso.org/schemas/iso25964/skos-thes#) and I can do a better modeling of the UNESCO thesaurus.

 

I have some doubts ... but I think it is due to the structure of SKOS (which is somewhat asymmetric). The ISO-25964 datamodel it's more precise and complete than SKOS. All my doubts are referred from the point of view of the publication of the UNESCO Thesaurus as Linked Open Data dataset. In this sense, the whole dataset may be correctly modeled. However, when considering individual elements encounter problems exist to discover other resources.

 

An example: the UNESCO thesaurus term "Learning"

 

Learning

MT 1.05 Educational sciences and environment 

NT Adult learning

NT Learning disabilities

NT Learning processes

NT Learning readiness

RT Cognition

RT Developmental psychology

RT Education

RT Memorization

 

This term is into micro-thesaurus "1.05 Educational sciences and environment" and this micro-thesaurus form part of the knowledge domain "Education". It may be also considered a top term, since it has no generic term. In SKOS + ISO-THES could be represented as follows (in Turtle):

 

@prefix unescothes: <http://skos.um.es/unescothes/> .

unescothes:C02240 rdf:type skos:Concept ;

   skos:prefLabel "Learning"@en,

      "Apprentissage"@fr,

      "Aprendizaje"@es,

      "Учеба (процесс)"@ru ;

   skos:inScheme <http://skos.um.es/unescothes/CS000> ;

   skos:topConceptOf <http://skos.um.es/unescothes/CS000> ;

 

The main problem is that from a concept it's impossible to determine the micro-thesaurus to which it belongs. That is, there is no explicit inverse property for skos:member, something like "skos-thes:isMemberOfGroup" (considering that micro-thesauri are represented using ConceptGroup):

 

unescothes:C02240 skos-thes:isMemberOfGroup unescothes:COL105 .

 

[JDS:>] Is this inverse needed? A SPARQL can extract the skos collections of sub-class (or conceptGroup type MT) having this concept as a member. 

Would that solve your problem?

 

Knowledge domains and micro-thesauri can be represented as skos-thes:ConceptGroup and the whole UNESCO Thesaurus as a skos:ConceptScheme . But there isn't any property to determine the knowledge domains from the Concept Scheme. It's evident that this property is inverse of skos:inScheme, something like "skos-thes:contains". Could it be explicitly declared in the namespace of skos-thes?

[JDS:>] The existence of concept groups of type “Knowledge Domain”(KD)  or “Micro Thesaurus” (MT) should be considered specific to the Unesco thesaurus.

In ISO 25964 it is suggested to have a controlled vocabulary detailing the conceptGroupType.

In the ISO 25964 RDF/OWL SKOS extension proposal it is suggested

- to create unesco:MT and unesco:KD, both as OWL sub-class of skos:Collection.

- all skos:Collection have a skos:inScheme property (identifying the thesaurus or Concept Schem)

This allows:

- to have a SPARQL selecting all skos:Collection thae have a skos:inScheme identifying the unesco skos:ConceptScheme and are of type unesco:KD (orlikewise  unesco:MT)

 

unescothes:CS001 skos-thes:contains unescothes:COL001 .

 

and then:

 

unescothes:COL001 skos-thes:subGroup unescothes:COL105

unescothes:COL105 skos-thes:superGroup unescothes:COL001

 

Another problem is difficult to solve without using custom properties. It is impossible to determine from the URI associated with a ConceptGroup those concepts that belong to that group and are simultaneously top concepts. This forces the RDF application to preserve at any time the data of skos:ConceptScheme URI with corresponding skos:hasTopConcept properties.

[JDS:>] A SPARQL query can bring this up.  For a given concept group CG, select all skos:Concept C where <CG> skos:member <C> and <C> skos:isTopConceptOf <unescoThesaurus>

 

Custom properties should be developed to indicate when a concept is an access point to the hierarchical structure of concepts from a ConceptGroup (I send you a RDF vocabulary draft into uneskosvoc.rdf file).

 

unescothes:C02240 uneskosvoc:mainConceptOf unescothes:COL105 .

unescothes:COL105 uneskovoc:hasMainConcept unescothes:C02240 .

 

I will subscribe to the mail list.

 

Regards,

Juan

 

--
Juan Antonio Pastor Sánchez, Ph.D. 
Dep. of Information and Documentation
Faculty of Communication and Documentation
University of Murcia
phone: +34 868 88 7252
http://webs.um.es/pastor
pastor@xxxxx



 

--
Dr. Juan Antonio Pastor Sánchez
Dep. de Información y Documentación
Facultad de Comunicación y Documentación
Universidad de Murcia
Tel: +34 868 88 7252
http://webs.um.es/pastor
pastor@xxxxx

Juan Antonio Pastor Sánchez, Ph.D. 
Dep. of Information and Documentation
Faculty of Communication and Documentation
University of Murcia
phone: +34 868 88 7252
http://webs.um.es/pastor
pastor@xxxxx


By Date: Previous | Next Current Thread By Thread: Previous | Next